Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden

[Andre Jute]

Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849

I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.

But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.

It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.

But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.

It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.

Andre Jute
Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
>

[Catrike Rider]

I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
congressional term limits.

[Andre Jute]

You think Pelosi and Schumer will let anyone put term limits on the agenda?
>
Term limits, in the sense of an age bracket at both ends, for presidential candidates, would certainly have removed Joe Biden from the national scene.
>
Andre Jute
It takes years, maybe decades, to get a Constitutional change approved by the State legislatures. And that is a right and proper process; Constitutional change is serious stuff.
>

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:43:43 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute

<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:34:00 AM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
>> >https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
>> >
>> >I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
>> >
>> >But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
>> >
>> >It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
>> >
>> >But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
>> >
>> >It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
>> >
>> >Andre Jute
>> >Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
>> >>
>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
>> congressional term limits.
>>
>You think Pelosi and Schumer will let anyone put term limits on the agenda?

Of course not. Neither will the Republicans. It would take a
Constitutional convention and I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

[John B.]

But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
different things.

[John B.]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider

But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
meaningless in the equation of government.

Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
government may not take against individuals.

>Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...

Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
they tend to flock together.

[John B.]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider

Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
is not the iron clad document that some think it is.

As for list of actions the government may not take against
individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
and months and months before their trial.

>>Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>
>Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>they tend to flock together.

But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[sms]

On 9/10/2022 7:00 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider

<snip>

> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far.

Actually, at 44%, Biden’s approval rating is higher than the approval
ratings of Donald Trump (41%), Barack Obama (43%), Bill Clinton (39%),
Jimmy Carter (43%), and Ronald Reagan (41%) at this point in their
presidencies.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.

>As for list of actions the government may not take against
>individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
>Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
>right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
>Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
>and months and months before their trial.

Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
usually results in a speedy trial.

>>>Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>>
>>Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>>they tend to flock together.
>
>But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?

Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
(Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
about what's taught in our schools.

[John B.]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 04:27:24 -0400, Catrike Rider

The whole world once approved of slavery (:-)
I've often wondered. It is noticeable that the growth of the
anti-slavery movement seemed to parallel the increase in
industrialization in most countries.
Perhaps it is easy to condemn slavery when you don't need them to work
in your factory?

>>As for list of actions the government may not take against
>>individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
>>Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
>>right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
>>Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
>>and months and months before their trial.
>
>Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
>grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
>by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
>usually results in a speedy trial.
>
>>>>Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>>>
>>>Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>>>they tend to flock together.
>>
>>But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
>
>
>Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
>easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
>(Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
>about what's taught in our schools.

Well, way back when, schools were financed by towns and villages and
taught nothing that was not approved by the citizens. One can only
speculate why that seems to have changed to a point where people brag
about having a say in what is taught.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 16:25:57 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Slavery in the USA was mostly field work, not factory work. The
abolition of slavery here occured long before the industrial
revolution.

>>>As for list of actions the government may not take against
>>>individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
>>>Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
>>>right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
>>>Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
>>>and months and months before their trial.
>>
>>Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
>>grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
>>by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
>>usually results in a speedy trial.
>>
>>>>>Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>>>>
>>>>Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>>>>they tend to flock together.
>>>
>>>But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
>>
>>
>>Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
>>easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
>>(Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
>>about what's taught in our schools.
>
>Well, way back when, schools were financed by towns and villages and
>taught nothing that was not approved by the citizens. One can only
>speculate why that seems to have changed to a point where people brag
>about having a say in what is taught.

No need to speculate. The governments and the teachers' unions have
usurped the parents rights in many places in the USA, and now begins
the process of taking them back.

[John B.]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 05:36:02 -0400, Catrike Rider

The so called "Industrial Revolution" in the U.S. is usually dated as
beginning at about the same time as the Civil war ended - 1865.
Slavery was abolished in the U.S. with the 13th Amendment of 1965.

When I was growing up the Town had a "School Board" which was made up
of people, elected I believe, which was tasked with overseeing the
schools - I remember that they instituted a "driving course" which
taught the highway laws and a bit about how to actually drive a car.

Don't you still have them?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 17:26:23 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Slavery in the "Confederate" states was outlawed in 1863.

You suggested that slavery began being condemnded because of
industrial mechanization. Even in 1865, there wasn't much industry in
the south where the majority of slavery had existed.

There is also the fact that, as I said, slavery was mostly field work,
not factory work.

Yes, we still have school boards, mostly elected. Unfortunately, voter
interest in school boards has waned and leftist elements have snuck
in.

[AMuzi]

You've been a way a very long time.

Driving instruction is optional, expensive and in many
districts privatized outside the school system. Which isn't
a big deal because the younger types generally don't drive
and don't want to.

This is a more urban than rural phenomenon. In the case of
my two college-age grandsons, one passed the course ($450)
but was never licensed, the other, who's more careful with
money, hasn't and likely won't. Their friends don't drive
either.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

I understand your points but the 1 January 1863 Emancipation
Proclamation was a propaganda device with zero practical
effect. Lincoln outlawed slavery in areas he did not
control; nothing changed until force of arms made it so.

[Frank Krygowski]

That's an odd attitude. If school boards are elected, that means the majority of those voting
chose the board members. How could there be an opportunity for anyone else to sneak in?

ISTM that those who complain about the election of "leftists" (i.e. anyone less right wing than
themselves) are those who can't admit to themselves that their own views aren't those of
the majority.

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:15:12 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>
> I understand your points but the 1 January 1863 Emancipation
> Proclamation was a propaganda device with zero practical
> effect. Lincoln outlawed slavery in areas he did not
> control; nothing changed until force of arms made it so.

That's true, it had no immediate effect. But ultimately, it did what was intended.

- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

Indeed, and Union armies in the South did force the issue. Sherman
reported hundreds of former slaves following his army.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:49:43 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 17:26:23 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >When I was growing up the Town had a "School Board" which was made up
>> >of people, elected I believe, which was tasked with overseeing the
>> >schools - I remember that they instituted a "driving course" which
>> >taught the highway laws and a bit about how to actually drive a car.
>> >
>> >Don't you still have them?
>> Yes, we still have school boards, mostly elected. Unfortunately, voter
>> interest in school boards has waned and leftist elements have snuck
>> in.
>
>That's an odd attitude. If school boards are elected, that means the majority of those voting
>chose the board members. How could there be an opportunity for anyone else to sneak in?

Do you have trouble reading? Go back over where I said, "voter
interest in school boards has waned." Same thing has happened that
allowed prosecutor who release crooks to be elected. Leftist money
(George Soros) pushed thier lies on disinterested voters.

>ISTM that those who complain about the election of "leftists" (i.e. anyone less right wing than
>themselves) are those who can't admit to themselves that their own views aren't those of
>the majority.

Recent happenings indicate otherwise. See Virginia governor for
details.

>- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

The most left sources have run polls showing Democrats having far below 50% approval rating and Biden personally with less than 36% (and these polls are purposely run in leftist areas to obtain the best possible results). Frank doesn't want to believe it. So I emailed Governor Greg Abbott to bus several hundred illegals to Poland OH so that outpost of Biden supporters can judge for themselves the value of Biden's policies.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:11 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:49:43 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 17:26:23 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >When I was growing up the Town had a "School Board" which was made up
> >> >of people, elected I believe, which was tasked with overseeing the
> >> >schools - I remember that they instituted a "driving course" which
> >> >taught the highway laws and a bit about how to actually drive a car.
> >> >
> >> >Don't you still have them?
> >> Yes, we still have school boards, mostly elected. Unfortunately, voter
> >> interest in school boards has waned and leftist elements have snuck
> >> in.
> >
> >That's an odd attitude. If school boards are elected, that means the majority of those voting
> >chose the board members. How could there be an opportunity for anyone else to sneak in?
> Do you have trouble reading? Go back over where I said, "voter
> interest in school boards has waned."

You seem to be having trouble thinking! The school board members, whoever they are, did
get elected. Enough voters were interested to give those board members the necessary votes.
That's how elections work. They cannot have "sneaked in," as through an unlocked door.

Apparently your favorite candidates lost. Too bad! Perhaps you should go door to door
before the next election, instead of somehow trying to pretend the winners didn't really win.

(Why is that pretense such a big thing with the right wing?)

- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski

<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:30:11 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:49:43 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 17:26:23 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >When I was growing up the Town had a "School Board" which was made up
>> >> >of people, elected I believe, which was tasked with overseeing the
>> >> >schools - I remember that they instituted a "driving course" which
>> >> >taught the highway laws and a bit about how to actually drive a car.
>> >> >
>> >> >Don't you still have them?
>> >> Yes, we still have school boards, mostly elected. Unfortunately, voter
>> >> interest in school boards has waned and leftist elements have snuck
>> >> in.
>> >
>> >That's an odd attitude. If school boards are elected, that means the majority of those voting
>> >chose the board members. How could there be an opportunity for anyone else to sneak in?
>> Do you have trouble reading? Go back over where I said, "voter
>> interest in school boards has waned."
>
>You seem to be having trouble thinking! The school board members, whoever they are, did
>get elected. Enough voters were interested to give those board members the necessary votes.
>That's how elections work. They cannot have "sneaked in," as through an unlocked door.

Voters don't research the candidates and discover that all the ads are
financed by Gearge Soros. That now seems to be corrected in many
places. Florida is booting the leftists out as we speak. Also see
Virgina governor election for further details.

[Tom Kunich]

I will repeat - I have asked Governor Greg Abbott to send several hundred illegals to Poland OH so that you can make a more educated decision about Biden's border policies. It is extremely easy to think that since it doesn't bother you personally that it sounds good. Lets see how good it looks after your own neighborhood is ride with drugs and crime.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 13:35:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I will repeat - I have asked Governor Greg Abbott to send several hundred illegals to Poland OH so that you can make a more educated decision about Biden's border policies. It is extremely easy to think that since it doesn't bother you personally that it sounds good. Lets see how good it looks after your own neighborhood is ride with drugs and crime.

Look (and think) before you leap.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland,_Ohio>
"The village is not named after the country Poland, but instead takes
its name from its original proprietor, George Poland."

<https://www.bestplaces.net/voting/city/ohio/poland>
"In the last Presidential election, Mahoning county flipped narrowly
Republican, 50.3% to 48.4%."
"Mahoning county flipped Republican after voting Democratic in the
previous five Presidential elections"

If you send all the illegals to Poland, Ohio, the Republicans will
probably loose the residents support.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have to say that y'all back there have developed some pretty bizarre
notions. You live in a democracy, in fact you run about all over the
world shouting the advantages of the democratic system.

And now you argue that "leftist elements have snuck
in". How can you even talk about left and right in a democracy as the
blokes elected by the majority must be "the norm" and those that lost
the outliers... just as in 1861.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 06:46:33 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

No argument just facts.. It's being corrected. Parents are taking back
control

[John B.]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 13:35:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Well, perhaps you did ask the Governor to send some illegal's to Ohio,
but more to the point.... did the governor pay any attention to you?
Or did he just ignore you off as just another silly old fool?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Radey Shouman]

True, it did keep England and France out of the war.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.

> >As for list of actions the government may not take against
> >individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
> >Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
> >right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
> >Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
> >and months and months before their trial.
> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
> usually results in a speedy trial.
> >>>Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
> >>
> >>Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
> >>they tend to flock together.
> >
> >But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
> about what's taught in our schools.

As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.

[AMuzi]

The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
(and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
not have been born at all.

There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
time and he looks good, even great.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:34:09 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 13:35:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I will repeat - I have asked Governor Greg Abbott to send several hundred illegals to Poland OH so that you can make a more educated decision about Biden's border policies. It is extremely easy to think that since it doesn't bother you personally that it sounds good. Lets see how good it looks after your own neighborhood is ride with drugs and crime.
> Look (and think) before you leap.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland,_Ohio>
> "The village is not named after the country Poland, but instead takes
> its name from its original proprietor, George Poland."

No, AFAIK that's false. I've read extensively about the history of this village. I've never come across
the name George Poland. The village originally went by the name Fowler, who was the proprietor of
the village center grist mill and tavern. But the name was changed to honor both Tadeusz Kościuszko,
the military engineer and close friend of Thomas Jefferson who fortified West Point; and Count
Casimir Pulaski, who organized an American cavalry and once saved Washington's life. It's been
plausibly said that without the efforts of those two men, the U.S. would not exist.

At the time the village and surrounding township were named, the nation of Poland did not exist
on the maps. Its territory had been split up by Russia, Prussia and Austria. I have the impression that freedom for Poland was a somewhat popular cause, similar to the "Free Tibet" bumper stickers seen today.
Anyway, when the name was adopted for the village, the quote I've read is "Here, at least, there
will be a Poland which is free."

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 9:27:06 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>
> There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
> historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
> It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
> Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
> time and he looks good, even great.

+1, emphatically

Thanks for the word "presentism." I'll use that.

- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 19:29:35 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:34:09 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 13:35:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I will repeat - I have asked Governor Greg Abbott to send several hundred illegals to Poland OH so that you can make a more educated decision about Biden's border policies. It is extremely easy to think that since it doesn't bother you personally that it sounds good. Lets see how good it looks after your own neighborhood is ride with drugs and crime.
>> Look (and think) before you leap.
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland,_Ohio>
>> "The village is not named after the country Poland, but instead takes
>> its name from its original proprietor, George Poland."

>No, AFAIK that's false. I've read extensively about the history of this village. I've never come across
>the name George Poland. The village originally went by the name Fowler, who was the proprietor of

>the village center grist mill and tavern. But the name was changed to honor both Tadeusz Ko?ciuszko,

>the military engineer and close friend of Thomas Jefferson who fortified West Point; and Count
>Casimir Pulaski, who organized an American cavalry and once saved Washington's life. It's been
>plausibly said that without the efforts of those two men, the U.S. would not exist.
>
>At the time the village and surrounding township were named, the nation of Poland did not exist
>on the maps. Its territory had been split up by Russia, Prussia and Austria. I have the impression that freedom for Poland was a somewhat popular cause, similar to the "Free Tibet" bumper stickers seen today.
>Anyway, when the name was adopted for the village, the quote I've read is "Here, at least, there
>will be a Poland which is free."
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Thanks. I stand corrected. Do you want to send the owner of the
Wikipedia page a correction? I would do it, but he's certain to ask
for authoritative confirmation, which I can't provide. His source for
the info is a 1905 book on US place names from the US Geological
Survey. It's going to be difficult to argue against that.

The origin of certain place names in the United States (2nd edition)
by Gannett, Henry, 1846-1914
<https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_9V1IAAAAMAAJ/page/n248/mode/1up>

The first 14 pages include sources. I slogged through those pages but
didn't find anything specific to Poland, Ohio. So, I downloaded the
340 page document and fed it to some OCR software (PDF-Xchange
Editor). Looks like about an hour to scan. Ugh. I'll be back if I
find anything interesting.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:43:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>The origin of certain place names in the United States (2nd edition)
>by Gannett, Henry, 1846-1914
><https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_9V1IAAAAMAAJ/page/n248/mode/1up>
>
>The first 14 pages include sources. I slogged through those pages but
>didn't find anything specific to Poland, Ohio. So, I downloaded the
>340 page document and fed it to some OCR software (PDF-Xchange
>Editor). Looks like about an hour to scan. Ugh. I'll be back if I
>find anything interesting.

Nothing interesting found. Poland appears in several other names, but
no source for the Poland, Ohio name.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

OK. I believe your context. They had to include slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocating representatives. In order to even get enough agreement to create the USA Constitution and government. But they still did it. Blacks, slaves, were not whole humans. They were just 60% of a human. Back in the Civil War days when soldiers got shot the doctors often cut off the leg or arm. Because otherwise the soldier's wound would get infected and gangrene would set in and the soldier would die. Lot of handicapped soldiers. Lesser of two evils. But the lesser of two evils is still evil. Its still not considered good because its the lesser evil.

>
> There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
> historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
> It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
> Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
> time and he looks good, even great.

Agree. Context matters. Dropping of the atomic bombs comes up as well. Truman killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians. But saved hundreds of thousands of American soldiers. And millions of Japanese soldiers and civilians. And millions and millions of dollars of war spending.

[Catrike Rider]

Well said..

The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.

It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
back then, too.

[Catrike Rider]

Sending the abortion issue back to the states was the right thing to
do given the fact that the Roe v Wade decision was not justified. One
duty of the court is to correct previous incorrect decisions.

>> >As for list of actions the government may not take against
>> >individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
>> >Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
>> >right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
>> >Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
>> >and months and months before their trial.
>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
>> usually results in a speedy trial.
>> >>>Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>> >>
>> >>Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>> >>they tend to flock together.
>> >
>> >But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
>> about what's taught in our schools.
>
>As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.

DeSantis tends to do what most of constituents want him to do. He's
very popular, unlike Joe Biden.

[Catrike Rider]

Nonsense. It was just a way of getting the compromise.

>Back in the Civil War days when soldiers got shot the doctors often cut off the leg or arm. Because otherwise the soldier's wound would get infected and gangrene would set in and the soldier would die.

Actually, as my grandfather told me from hearing his father's
descriptions.. yeah, my great grandfather fought in the civil war. He
rode cavaly. The amputations were because of the nature of the wounds
delivered by the big, heavy, mostly .50 caliber bullets. They shredded
bones.

[AMuzi]

+1
And everywhere on this earth back to prehistory.

The first recorded slave owner on the continent was a black
man in Virginia ('recorded' exempts widespread native-native
slavery which was well established here when Europeans arrived)

More context on early Virginia:

https://history101.com/first-legally-slaveholder-black-man/

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-first-slave-owner-in-virginia-was-not-jewish-or-european/

[Andre Jute]

So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>

[Frank Krygowski]

That certainly doesn't invalidate all fact checking! Sometimes sources in print get things wrong,
but checking sources is far, far better than the wild speculation some folks indulge in.

- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:29:37 AM UTC+1, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:34:09 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 13:35:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >I will repeat - I have asked Governor Greg Abbott to send several hundred illegals to Poland OH so that you can make a more educated decision about Biden's border policies. It is extremely easy to think that since it doesn't bother you personally that it sounds good. Lets see how good it looks after your own neighborhood is ride with drugs and crime.
>> > Look (and think) before you leap.
>> >
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland,_Ohio>
>> > "The village is not named after the country Poland, but instead takes
>> > its name from its original proprietor, George Poland."
>> No, AFAIK that's false. I've read extensively about the history of this village. I've never come across
>> the name George Poland. The village originally went by the name Fowler, who was the proprietor of

>> the village center grist mill and tavern. But the name was changed to honor both Tadeusz Ko?ciuszko,

>> the military engineer and close friend of Thomas Jefferson who fortified West Point; and Count
>> Casimir Pulaski, who organized an American cavalry and once saved Washington's life. It's been
>> plausibly said that without the efforts of those two men, the U.S. would not exist.
>>
>> At the time the village and surrounding township were named, the nation of Poland did not exist
>> on the maps. Its territory had been split up by Russia, Prussia and Austria. I have the impression that freedom for Poland was a somewhat popular cause, similar to the "Free Tibet" bumper stickers seen today.
>> Anyway, when the name was adopted for the village, the quote I've read is "Here, at least, there
>> will be a Poland which is free."
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski

>So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.

Welcome to my discussion. Unlike your threads, anyone is welcome to
mine. As for stoping and thinking, I never stop thinking.

I think I may have found what happened. The author of the book simply
correlated place names with early residents. Some examples I found in
the book:

Boardman; township and village in Mahoning County, Ohio, named for the
original proprietor, Frederirk Boardmun.

Canfield; village in Mahoning County, Ohio, named for one of the
original proprietors, Jonathan Canfield.

Garfield; ...town in Mahoning County, Ohio... named for President
James A. Garfield

Kirtland; township in Mahoning County, Ohio, named for Judge Turnhand
Kirtland.

Poland; village in Mahoning County, Ohio, named for George Poland, its
original proprietor.

Youngstown; city in Mahoning County, Ohio, named for John Young, an
early resident.

It seems that every town listed for Mahoning County was names after
someone, usually the "original proprietor". I wonder if any of the
other names in Mahoning Country are also wrong?

It's also possible the error might have come from the books sources:
Gazetteer of Ohio, by John Kilbourn, 1821.
Pioneer History of Ohio, by S. P. Hildreth.
Biographical and Historical Memoirs of the Early Pioneer
Settlers of Ohio, by S. P. llildreth.
Historical Collectionsof Ohio, by Henry Howe. (Three volumes
in two): 1889, 189?.
Ohio Gazetteer, by Warren Jenkins, 1837.
If you run across any of these references, you might find something on
the naming of Poland, OH.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:22 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I think I may have found what happened. The author of the book simply
> correlated place names with early residents. Some examples I found in
> the book:
>
> Boardman; township and village in Mahoning County, Ohio, named for the
> original proprietor, Frederirk Boardmun.

Absolute bullshit. That author is simply inventing nonsense so his words get published. Some
authors do that, as we know.

I picked up a book on the history of (adjoining) Boardman Township at the library just now. The
founder of Boardman Township was Elijah Boardman, who first purchased the land from the
Connecticut Land Company. The book lists a bit about the Boardman family going back to
the 1600s. There is no mention of any Frederirk Boardman.

- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

The stupid six understand nothing and if it helps their arguments they don't WANT to understand anything.

[Tom Kunich]

I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina. Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states. Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor. All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas. The original colonies did not treat slaves badly. Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.

I'm sure the stupid six will want to argue about Irish slave yet again after I showed them Irish slave auction notices. When you have stupid asses, they simply can't help from showing their worth.

[Tom Kunich]

The accountant is now handing out medical advice. It is almost as good as his "get the vaccine" advice.

[Tom Kunich]

Absolutely true - Indian tribes ALL over the continent practiced slavery of competing tribes.

[Tom Kunich]

Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.

[Jeff Liebermann]

There's an error in my spelling of Frederirk caused by an OCR error.
It should be Frederick. The original document is full of overlapping
letters and contrived ligatures. That's why I didn't offer my OCR
version for download. I edited what I posted but apparently missed
this error.

If Frederick Boardman has been Polish, it would have been spelled
Fryderyk. If George Poland was from Poland, it would have been Jerzy,
not George. No way to tell where they were from but something seems
odd with the names.

I think you now have enough circumstantial evidence to inform the
author of the Wikipedia page on Poland OH and suggest he simply remove
the offending sentence.

[Andre Jute]

The Irish were indentured labour, pretty near slavery, but there was an endpoint agreed by contract, in return for passage to the New World. Some were harshly treated by their master, but unlike the black slaves mainly from Africa, their servitude was not hereditary. Many of these indentured Irish went on to be substantial landowners in their own right, because in many places, as soon as they were freed men (or women -- quite a few known cases), they were entitled to a land grant like anyone else who could meet the requirements. -- AJ
>

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:59:22 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>
> Welcome to my discussion. Unlike your threads, anyone is welcome to
> mine. As for stoping and thinking, I never stop thinking.
>

Really, yours? Tsch! This is my thread too, dickhead. Check the first post. If you want to discuss naming conventions of hick towns in Ohio, fuck off, do it elsewhere.
>

[Jeff Liebermann]

For Andre:
Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
actions.

For Tom:
Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.

[AMuzi]

North Carolina is not and was not 'north' by any standard.

Of the original 13 States, Pennsylvania is the center- six
are north and six south of PA, hence 'Keystone State'.

The later surveyors Mason and Dixon established a line
considered a divide between north and south. It describes
the bulk of the border between Maryland and Pennsylvania.

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:09:54 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >> So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>
> >Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.
> For Andre:
> Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
> actions.
>

WTF is this? Uncle Jeff's hoary old worthless nostrums? It's an opportunity to observe again that you have no wisdom, Jeff. You haven't even noticed that I do not collect disciples. Decent people are welcome to agree with me on some things, and disagree on others, as their own principles may point. You're the one whose associates are demonstrably vicious and vindictive and not decent people at all.

>
> For Tom:
> Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.
>

More pablum from someone whose judgement is already in serious question. Tom has been right on every major issue about the pandemic and vaccinations, and your little gang of ignorant louts have hounded him for it, offering as an excuse for your poor judgement, like a beggar in Calcutta offers his sores, that you believed the official line because it was the official line. Besides your attempts at bullying, your gross incompetence at it, such gross errors of judgement doesn't incline me ever to take your advice. Tom will, of course, speak for himself.
>
Jesus, save me from the advice of proven idiots.
>
Now piss off out of my thread.
>

[Tom Kunich]

Andre, there WERE indentured labor Irish that used that method to pay their way to America and learn the social structure here. But the English were seizing Irish rebels and selling them into slavery and I showed the slave auction notices. I believe that these were held on Antigua and this occurred before there were any black slaves in the US.

[Andre Jute]

I once described it as the "Mason-Dixie Line", my literary agent's assistant immediately started whistling Dixie, and he laughed so hard, he pulled a muscle, and the usual humourless clowns came to look disapprovingly into his office. I've always held that unless you have a lotta laughs in a profession, it isn't worth going into. Most people have plenty of opportunities but lack the skill and the persistence and the balls to discover what those other opportunities may be.
>
Andre Jute
Dilettante.
>

[Tom Kunich]

Liebermann as I said, simply now believes so deeply in himself despite the fact that the threw away his education and somehow pretends that he was successful. Imagine having an EE degree and repairing printers for a living just 25 miles from silicon valley!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:04:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute

<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:59:22 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>>
>> Welcome to my discussion. Unlike your threads, anyone is welcome to
>> mine. As for stoping and thinking, I never stop thinking.

>Really, yours?

Nope. Not mine. For what little it's worth to you, I don't recognize
your right to disallow comments in "your" threads. RBT is a newsgroup
which does not have any moderation. You are not a moderator of RBT.
If you post from Google Groups, you are expected to follow Googles
Groups guidelines, but nothing else:
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/4561696?hl=en>
If require the protection afforded by moderation, it's easy enough to
start your own moderated newsgroup or Google Group. You want control?
Start by controlling yourself.

I'm also not interested in following your edicts when "your" threads
are commonly used as launch points for attacks on various individuals.
I haven't seen any postings by you suggesting that Tom refrain from
attacking others from "your" threads. Yet, he's done it many times.
If you can't keep to the topic you initiate in "your" threads, please
don't expect anyone else to do the same. When someone is attacked
from your thread, expect a response from them and from their
supporters. Self-defense if you will. Even if everyone caved in to
your unenforceable demand to stay out of "your" threads, you would
likely find something else to complain or argue about. You are like
an arsonist, where the fun is not in starting or watching the fire,
but rather in watching everyone run around in panic trying to deal
with the results of the fire. You like strife. If there's no strife
available, you create it. Please return to your mythical 30,000
member writers mailing list and play your games there. Much as I like
your Utopia Kranich build, it doesn't compensate for any of your
comments in RBT.

>Tsch! This is my thread too, dickhead. Check the first post. If
>you want to discuss naming conventions of hick towns in Ohio,
>fuck off, do it elsewhere.

If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
newsgroup or forum. I prefer unmoderated Usenet over blogs, mailing
lists, forums, or other moderation infested forums. I've been on both
sides of the moderation issue and long ago decided that Usenet was the
least of the available evils. The major benefit to me are the lack of
control freaks, like you.

[Andre Jute]

>
Send an executive summary, will you. I have other things to do than stroke the hurt feeling of overgrown teenagers.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Andy already addressed this lie.

> Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states.

Being uneducated Tommy, you may not know about this thing called the Missouri Compromise. That was a declaration that all territories north of the northern Missouri state line would not have slaves. And all territories south of this line would allow slavery. It postponed the Civil War for a few years. Until the Kansas Territory citizens decided they did not want slaves, against the agreed Missouri Compromise. John Brown went out to Kansas and caused trouble. Before the Civil War, many of the northern states had outlawed slavery within their states.

> Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor.

The northern factories had figured out it was in fact cheaper to hire workers for factories. Instead of the costly slaves who required paying for housing and food and guards. In a factory, slaves are not the cheapest way to get labor. As for political power, the north had more population, so more House of Representative members. But the Senate allots two people to each state. So gridlock in the Senate. And the Constitution was originally written to allocate 3/5ths of a person to all the slave states for their slaves. So to keep the House more evenly divided between north and south. So the political power was not in the north as your lie claims.

> All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas.

https://mappinghistory.uoregon.edu/english/US/US18-01.html
https://mappinghistory.uoregon.edu/english/US/US18-02.html
In the two links above you can click on the maps and get the spread of slavery and the spread of cotton production in the south up to 1860. It is clear that Texas did not have the majority or even a whole lot of slaves or cotton production at the time of the Civil War. They did have some, yes. But the majority of slaves and cotton production was still in the old south of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi. You are just making up nonsense again Tommy.

> The original colonies did not treat slaves badly.

Tommy, you should go down to Texas or Florida and apply for a job at their school textbook rewriting offices. Texas officials say slavery was involuntary servitude.

> Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.

Tommy, good to see you lapping up the nonsense put out by the racists and conspiracy groups. You swallowed it hook line and sinker.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/04/19/how-myth-irish-slaves-became-favorite-meme-racists-online

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-irish-slaves/fact-check-first-slaves-in-north-american-colonies-were-not-100-white-children-from-ireland-idUSKBN23O2BS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth

I am truly worried about your stupidity Tommy. You will get hurt being this dumb.

[John B.]

North Carolina joined the Confederacy on May 20, 1861 so during the
Civil War period it was considered a "Southern" state.

>Of the original 13 States, Pennsylvania is the center- six
>are north and six south of PA, hence 'Keystone State'.
>
>The later surveyors Mason and Dixon established a line
>considered a divide between north and south. It describes
>the bulk of the border between Maryland and Pennsylvania.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I guess I missed the Irish slave auction notices. Please post a
reference as the only mention I can find is Irish indentured people...
which is not slavery and in fact one of the first U.S. laws concerning
immigrants stated that"

"That all contracts that shall be made by emigrants to the United
States in foreign countries, in conformity to regulations that may be
established by the said Commissioner, whereby emigrants shall pledge
the wages of their labor for a term not exceeding twelve months to
repay the expenses of their emigration, shall be held to be valid in
law..."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:41:24 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
> newsgroup or forum.

I thought Jute claimed he'd already done that - some sort of group with 30,000 members, if I
correctly recall Funkmaster's description.

Apparently those 30,000 don't post enough to keep Jute occupied, so his sewage overflows into
this group. It's almost as if that group doesn't exist! :-)

(I wouldn't have bothered posting this if Jute weren't annoyed by people in "his" threads. Hah!)

- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:29:55 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:09:54 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> >> So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>>
>> >Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.

>> For Andre:
>> Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
>> actions.

>WTF is this?

So much for trying to be diplomatic and subtle. Maybe a quote will
penetrate the cloud that surrounds you:
"A man is known by the company he keeps" (Aesop, 51 BCE)

At one time, I was rather impressed by your knowledge, experience,
contacts, projects, writing style and command of facts. Today, all
that's left is your writing style, which is still impressive and which
I cannot equal, much less match. You've given me reason to question
everything else. The latest is your 30,000 member writing group,
which has yet to materialize. Looking back, I've noticed that much of
your background, references and claims are untraceable. They either
involve important people, who are inaccessible, or foreign
personalities who cannot easily be found. A Google search will return
your numerous books, paints, graphic design, vintage audio, some
mailing lists, your Utopia Kranich, and nothing else. Did I miss
anything? That's quite good for a common pedestrian life. What's
missing are all the adventures and important connections. For
example:
<https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/AndreJute>
Where are the references to being an intelligence officer, racing
driver, advertising executive, management consultant, performing arts
critic and professional gambler? Where is evidence of 15 years of a
classical music syndicated column? I'm slightly into classical music
and I've never seen your name mentioned as a critic. If you wrote
under a nom de plume, why hide it now? In other words, you appear to
be at least a partial fake and to me, a disappointment.

I blundered across this today:
Andre Jute FAQ v1.1
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZrHjeXZ53b8>

>Uncle Jeff's hoary old worthless nostrums?

My nostrum to cure you contains a large dose of honesty and truth. Try
it for a while and you'll eventually feel better.

>It's an opportunity to observe again that you have no wisdom, Jeff.

There are many definitions of wisdom. The one I practice is:
"Wisdom is one's knowledge of what is true and real, one's good
judgment, and the ability to learn from one's experiences and
mistakes."
Several times in RBT, I've mentioned that my criteria for judging
people is that willingness and ability to learn new things. I guess
wisdom might be considered an expansion on that. For you, it goes
back to my warning about being careful with whom you associate. If
I'm lacking in wisdom, you wisdom has totally failed by accepting Tom
as a disciple. If you believe that similar political beliefs are a
replacement for Tom's shortcomings, you are wrong and can have what's
left of my sympathy.

>You haven't even noticed that I do not collect disciples.

That's true. So far, you have only collected one disciple, Tom.

>Decent people are welcome to agree with me on some things, and
>disagree on others, as their own principles may point.

I've read what you think of those who disagree with you. I see a
mixture of personal criticism, irrelevant diversions into obscure
subjects and impressive rhetoric, served with a topping of profanity
and a pinch of name dropping. Other than Tom, those who agree, seem a
bit puzzled, which I don't understand.

>You're the one whose associates are demonstrably vicious and
>vindictive and not decent people at all.

Associates? There's no conspiracy or association here. I haven't
exchanged email with any of those whom you detest organizing a
concentrated attack on those who agree with your politics. It's a few
individuals, who apparently enjoy debunking Tom's lies. At least
that's my idea of fun. It's like a detective story, where the
perpetrator of a crime is known to everyone, but where there's no easy
way to prove it. With some effort and plenty of research, it's fairly
easy for anyone with an open mind to see that Tom has been almost 100%
wrong on literally every point that can be researched. If you fail to
see that, you're intentionally ignoring the obvious and supporting
someone who is demonstratively and consistently wrong on about
everything.

>> For Tom:
>> Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.

>More pablum from someone whose judgement is already in serious
>question.

My comment was for your disciple but as the leader of the cult, you
are allowed to speak on his behalf.

>Tom has been right on every major issue about the pandemic and
>vaccinations,

Really? I caught 3 or 4 references to amazing facts based on data
sifted out of the crowd sourced CDC VAERS database. I also caught you
doing it once. It's easy to be fooled by amazing facts once, but
three time? While fact checking isn't perfect, it has uncovered
problems with literally every URL or reference that Tom has provided
to substantiate his points (usually an attack on Dr Faucci). From
memory, that would be about 5 to 10 URL's since Tom normally doesn't
provide any backup to his claims.

>and your little gang of ignorant louts have hounded him for it,
>offering as an excuse for your poor judgement, like a beggar in
>Calcutta offers his sores, that you believed the official line
>because it was the official line.

Little as in belittle? Tom and you try to belittle your critics, but
nobody else does. However, it doesn't matter. My stature has nothing
to do with the validity of my comments and even less to do with the
validity of your or Tom's. Kindly refrain from you wordy and
elaborate personal attacks and instead try to deal with the issues in
question.

>Besides your attempts at bullying, your gross incompetence at it,
>such gross errors of judgement doesn't incline me ever to take your
>advice.

Bullying? How can I be little and at the same time a big bad bully?
Some consistency in name calling would be helpful here.

In the past, I've pointed to my description of various characters
commonly found on Usenet. You've ignore it, as is your right.
However, one of the characters fits you nicely:

<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/genesis.txt>
"In the distance, the judges watch from afar. While not concerned
with the relative merits of the discussion, they serve to pass
judgment upon those that contribute and remind them of their station
in life. Politics, logic, answers, and even the defacing of the
argument are of little concern to the judges. What matters is the
value of the contributors, who need to be reminded that they are
idiots, fools or members of the wrong tribe, thus invalidating their
opinions and comments."

>Tom will, of course, speak for himself.

As is his right, even though you seem to be representing him in this
discussion.

>Jesus, save me from the advice of proven idiots.

The advice was originally from Aesop. Do you consider him to be a
proven idiot?

>Now piss off out of my thread.

<http://thebookshelf2015.blogspot.com/2018/08/quotes-on-profanity.html>

[John B.]

I have found the perfect way to keep Andre's "thread(s)" pure and
unsullied.

Ignore him.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Liebermann as I said, simply now believes so deeply in himself despite the fact that the threw away his education and somehow pretends that he was successful.

Inaccurate, as usual. I guess dying with a positive bank balance is
considered being successful these days. Prior to the recent
inflationary trend, that was highly likely. Now, I'm not so sure. So,
I'm back to working at 74 years old.

>Imagine having an EE degree

You're the one who has to imagine having a college degree.
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
Please try not to salivate on your keyboard.

>and repairing printers for a living

Fixing printers has been an enjoyable sideline for me. I hate inkjets
and really like laser printers and plotters. I've made money fixing
higher end printers, but not as much as I've made fixing computers.
The sad part is that most of today's computers are not repairable.
Fortunately, the big, heavy and complicated office laser printers are
being displaced by smaller and cheaper AIO laser print, copy, fax and
scan machines. They are cheaper, easier to handle, fairly simple, and
potentially profitable for me to repair. Meanwhile, I'm getting work
fixing chainsaws, motorized garden equipment, generators and power
tools. These probably won't make me rich, but I would rather be
working than worrying.

>just 25 miles from silicon valley!

More like 35 miles one way. I did that commute for about 12 years.
Driving over "the hill" is white knuckle driving at its worst. My
house to KSJO airport, near where I was working:
<https://goo.gl/maps/9v6riij2twWwb4YR6>
When there was no traffic, it's about an hour. In typical traffic,
1.5 hrs. If there was an accident, add 30 mins. I could easily spend
half my working day on the road. At the time, I was about 25 to 35
years old. I could handle the stress and the hours fairly well. If I
tried that commute today, I probably wouldn't survive a week.

Drivel: Monday's repair job was CAT5e versus a rat. The rat won:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/b9reTnCNh5FrpM2e7>
Actually, I didn't find that mess. I just re-routed the CAT5e cables,
added new connectors, and plugged the conduit with whatever I could
find to make it rat resistant. No EE degree required and a 10 minute
commute.

[Andre Jute]

Thanks, Frankie-boy. Since you insist on posting in thread headlined "Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden", I shall assume that you agree with the majority. Welcome to the sensible people.

[Andre Jute]

>
Come on, Jeff! I asked for an executive summary, not a three-mile scroll of whining, which is what I assume this is. I'm not your mother, man, and while you run with the RBT Scum, I don't care shit what you think. So make it short or get lost. Nothing further from me in this post.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 22:10:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Come on, Jeff! I asked for an executive summary,

You did ask, but in reply to a different message:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/unBY53o3MPg/m/ZZs0EMAdAQAJ>

>not a three-mile scroll of whining, which is what I assume this is. I'm not your mother, man, and while you run with the RBT Scum, I don't care shit what you think. So make it short or get lost. Nothing further from me in this post.

I'm not accustomed to one-line discussions, also known as text
messaging, but I'll try:

- You attack people instead of their ideas.
- When "your" thread is used to launch an attack against someone,
they have the right to reply in "your" thread.
- It's not "your" thread just as it's not your newsgroup.
- I suspect that parts of your alleged background are contrived.
- Tom is your disciple and follows your lead at every turn.
- Your 30,000 member writers forum does not exist.
- I'm not the only person to come to similar conclusions:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZrHjeXZ53b8>

That's longer than an executive text message summary, but should
suffice. Feel free to distort and misinterpret every line. It's much
easier to do so with short messages.

[Tom Kunich]

Especially those who are approaching death and finally want to make a mark on civilization. I have never figured out how he could have a degree in EE and be 25 miles from Silicon Valley and have to repair printers for a living. That really doesn't say a whole lot for his competence. So why are we getting these treatises on how we don't know what we're doing when we were actually successful?

[Tom Kunich]

It is pretty funny that Frank doesn't even know the pseudonym of his fellow member of the stupid six. This was clearly not a typo but yet another demonstration of Frank's disinterest in his fellow supporters.

[Andre Jute]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:25:32 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 22:10:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Come on, Jeff! I asked for an executive summary,
> You did ask, but in reply to a different message:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/unBY53o3MPg/m/ZZs0EMAdAQAJ>
> >not a three-mile scroll of whining, which is what I assume this is. I'm not your mother, man, and while you run with the RBT Scum, I don't care shit what you think. So make it short or get lost. Nothing further from me in this post.
> I'm not accustomed to one-line discussions, also known as text
> messaging, but I'll try:
>
> - You attack people instead of their ideas.
>

Crap. If you read the forum without this laughable, malicious bias, you will discover that your "friends" refuse to discuss their ideas with me because they know I'll roll over them, again; they prefer to dart out from behind anonymity or claims of not reading me for a personal hit and then darting back into hiding.

>
> - When "your" thread is used to launch an attack against someone,
> they have the right to reply in "your" thread.
>

Of course. Who said otherwise? It is widely known that I am the friend of free speech. But the Krygowski Scum you run with enter my threads to bully Tom, not to argue cases. They gloat about ruining my threads. That's all right. I set up the current set of threads to prove that they're trolls, and they obliged me handsomely not only by trolling, as you're doing here, but bragging and gloating about it. QED.

>
> - It's not "your" thread
>

Of course it is my thread if I start it.

>
>just as it's not your newsgroup.
>

Who, except you, said it is my newsgroup? If I wanted to take it, I would've done so long since. I merely note, as for instance Daniels (the one who abused the English language, who wanted me ostracised so people would read his posts instead) did before me, that most of the rich, long threads are started by me, not by the dull Krygowski Scum you run with.

>
> - I suspect that parts of your alleged background are contrived.
>

Prove it. How many times do I have to tell you that I don't care shit what you think.

>
> - Tom is your disciple and follows your lead at every turn.
>

Crap. I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about the pandemic, and with him me. I am not responsible for your embarrassment you wilful clowns brought on yourselves with your pompous self-important credentialism.

>
> - Your 30,000 member writers forum does not exist.
>

You're too dumb to find it. As of today it has 30,279 members and also today I turned down 234 requests for membership from unqualified applicants, 72 in just the last tranche. I wonder if RBT even has 72 members left, never mind 279. There were certainly more than 72 members in RBT before Frank Krygowski and his ever-changing Gang of Scum drove them away.

>
> - I'm not the only person to come to similar conclusions:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZrHjeXZ53b8>
>

Link not checked because I know I will find similar malicious bias. I don't have to prove anything to trailer park trash, or indeed anyone else. I owe you nothing, not even courtesy. If you think I'm guilty of something, prove it, don't come whining to me for help in proving your dim suspicions.
>
This is the last letter from you I'll be answering until you come to your senses and apologise to both Tom and me, which I'm perfectly aware is likely to be too high a bar of decency for you to surmount.
>
Unsigned out of contempt.
>

[Andre Jute]

I'd have enjoyed the joke even better if I thought Kreepy Krygowski had the sophistication to make such an obvious pun (the lowest form of wit) on the cowardice of Flunky in using a pseudonym. But I'm afraid that you are right: Franki-boy is a crude sociopath who can't even properly remember the names of his sidekicks in net crime. -- AJ
>